Comments on: Just War v. Pacifism Debate http://www.outbursts.org/2007/04/21/just-war-v-pacifism-debate/ Apologia kai Polemikos Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:38:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Rex http://www.outbursts.org/2007/04/21/just-war-v-pacifism-debate/#comment-60595 Rex Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:45:18 +0000 http://www.outbursts.org/2007/04/21/just-war-v-pacifism-debate/#comment-60595 <p>"Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation, and without mercy."</p> <p>And Christians now days wonder who taught the radical Islamic fundamentalist to slay the infidel. </p> <p>I know the next generation will find the faults of our generation that we are to blind to see in the mirror but it boggles my mind to ever wonder how any Christian could approve of such slaughter "without mercy."</p> <p>BTW, if you ever read anything about the great Protestant Reformer Martin Luther's views on the Jews you might feel like you are reading a precursor to Adolf Hitler's <em>Mein Kampf.</em></p> “Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation, and without mercy.”

And Christians now days wonder who taught the radical Islamic fundamentalist to slay the infidel.

I know the next generation will find the faults of our generation that we are to blind to see in the mirror but it boggles my mind to ever wonder how any Christian could approve of such slaughter “without mercy.”

BTW, if you ever read anything about the great Protestant Reformer Martin Luther’s views on the Jews you might feel like you are reading a precursor to Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf.

]]> By: extremist http://www.outbursts.org/2007/04/21/just-war-v-pacifism-debate/#comment-60591 extremist Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:06:13 +0000 http://www.outbursts.org/2007/04/21/just-war-v-pacifism-debate/#comment-60591 <p>Thanks for the link.</p> <p>Ah, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry#Chivalric_codes">chivalry!</a> What could be more anti-liberal? From Wikipedia:</p> <blockquote> <p>There were several lists [of chivalric codes] written down during the Middle Ages. One example code can be found in the book Chivalry by 19th century French historian <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Gautier">Leon Gautier</a>:</p> <ul> <li>Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches, and shalt observe all its directions.</li> <li>Thou shalt defend the Church.</li> <li>Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.</li> <li>Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.</li> <li>Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.</li> <li>Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation, and without mercy.</li> <li>Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.</li> <li>Thou shalt never lie, and shall remain faithful to thy pledged word.</li> <li>Thou shalt be generous, and give largess to everyone.</li> <li>Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.</li> </ul> </blockquote> <p>Okay, so making war against the Infidel without mercy goes a bit too far. And we don't live in a feudal system, so perhaps it should say "thy <em>civic</em> duties" instead. But the rest of it sounds pretty good.</p> Thanks for the link.

Ah, chivalry! What could be more anti-liberal? From Wikipedia:

There were several lists [of chivalric codes] written down during the Middle Ages. One example code can be found in the book Chivalry by 19th century French historian Leon Gautier:

  • Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches, and shalt observe all its directions.
  • Thou shalt defend the Church.
  • Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.
  • Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.
  • Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
  • Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation, and without mercy.
  • Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.
  • Thou shalt never lie, and shall remain faithful to thy pledged word.
  • Thou shalt be generous, and give largess to everyone.
  • Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.

Okay, so making war against the Infidel without mercy goes a bit too far. And we don’t live in a feudal system, so perhaps it should say “thy civic duties” instead. But the rest of it sounds pretty good.

]]> By: adye2 http://www.outbursts.org/2007/04/21/just-war-v-pacifism-debate/#comment-60471 adye2 Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:33:52 +0000 http://www.outbursts.org/2007/04/21/just-war-v-pacifism-debate/#comment-60471 <p>It is good to see both sides tooling up to talk about war. The link at the end is from an article from Touchstone magazine by Darrell Cole of Drew University entitled "The Problem of War". It is one of the best articles I have read, probably because it outlines the views of perhaps the greatest religious author in our century, C.S.Lewis. If you know that C.S.Lewis is not a pacifist then you can tell which way I lean. The article shows the brilliant thinking of Lewis where he gives Biblical and philosophical basis for just-war doctrine as well as demonstrating the destructive mindset of liberal humanism. Also, through the article, Lewis tells us of the greatest model of a soldier... the knight:</p> <blockquote> <p>As Lewis reminds us, the knight is a work of art, not nature. Those who are naturally fitted to war-like pursuits will have to acquire the virtues of humility and mercy to supplement their inherent fierceness. Those who are naturally meek will have to acquire the virtues of courage and valor to supplement their natural humility and mildness. Truly such a "double demand on human nature," as Lewis calls it, requires the grace of God.</p> </blockquote> <p>I believe that the US military embodies this attitude more than any other military in the world.</p> <p>See the article at: <a href="http://www.touchstonemag.com/docs/issues/16.3docs/16-3pg45.html">Touchstone Magazine</a>.</p> It is good to see both sides tooling up to talk about war. The link at the end is from an article from Touchstone magazine by Darrell Cole of Drew University entitled “The Problem of War”. It is one of the best articles I have read, probably because it outlines the views of perhaps the greatest religious author in our century, C.S.Lewis. If you know that C.S.Lewis is not a pacifist then you can tell which way I lean. The article shows the brilliant thinking of Lewis where he gives Biblical and philosophical basis for just-war doctrine as well as demonstrating the destructive mindset of liberal humanism. Also, through the article, Lewis tells us of the greatest model of a soldier… the knight:

As Lewis reminds us, the knight is a work of art, not nature. Those who are naturally fitted to war-like pursuits will have to acquire the virtues of humility and mercy to supplement their inherent fierceness. Those who are naturally meek will have to acquire the virtues of courage and valor to supplement their natural humility and mildness. Truly such a “double demand on human nature,” as Lewis calls it, requires the grace of God.

I believe that the US military embodies this attitude more than any other military in the world.

See the article at: Touchstone Magazine.

]]> By: Rex http://www.outbursts.org/2007/04/21/just-war-v-pacifism-debate/#comment-60151 Rex Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:46:52 +0000 http://www.outbursts.org/2007/04/21/just-war-v-pacifism-debate/#comment-60151 <p>When I have time, I will come back and look at these links. Thanks for posting them. This is what needs to take place, a space and forum where both Christian pacifism and Christian just-war positions can be discussed in dialogue. The more dialogue, the more equipped people will be to make informed decisions. For the Christian pacifist, decisions on how to be involved in the pursuit of justice in non-violent ways. For the just war, how to decide when violence is not justified.</p> When I have time, I will come back and look at these links. Thanks for posting them. This is what needs to take place, a space and forum where both Christian pacifism and Christian just-war positions can be discussed in dialogue. The more dialogue, the more equipped people will be to make informed decisions. For the Christian pacifist, decisions on how to be involved in the pursuit of justice in non-violent ways. For the just war, how to decide when violence is not justified.

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